Daily Kos

Some Bees Are NOT Dying. Organic? Africanized? Why?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:47:18 PM PDT

I found an interesting hypothesis for the bee problem here..

A beekeeper in Tucson has not seen the levels of die-off that has hit commercial growers.

Dee Lusby's bees are doing fine. Actually, they're doing better than that, says the owner of Lusby Apiaries & Arizona Rangeland Honey of Arivaca.

Lusby has 900 hives of "free range" organic bees spread out over ranches from Benson to Sasabe.

"I've only lost one or two, maybe three (hives) out of every 30 or 40 hives," said Lusby.

Contrast that with up to 50% mortality in some commercial hives.

She speculates that

the use of pesticides, bee-growth formulas, artificial food supplements, breeding for size, inbreeding — all or some of which may make them susceptible to mites, viruses and fungi — and maybe even some strange side effects from feeding on genetically modified crops.

So the hives that are pushed to their limits by artificial means are dying off, but the organic ones are fine.  In other words, don't push the bees so hard, and they'll do better.  Don't use monoculture in your hive so you are not susceptible to colony collapse.  Use a genetically diverse group of bees and you have stronger bees.

Or could it be because they are Africanized killer bees, and somehow genetically superior?  Africanized killer bees have pushed out the honeybee population here in Arizona.  Reed Booth has some killer bee hives.  He thinks they are more resistant to all perils.  

"The Africanized bees are somewhat more resistant" than the European honeybees, he says of the aggressive, slightly smaller wild bees that produce bumper crops of honey and bad press. "But they're somewhat resistant to anything, probably including nuclear war."

If this is the case, then killer bees might become the bee of choice for commercial hives.  The impact of using more aggressive bees will need to be dealt with.  Or will the problem only return if killer bee hives are pushed to the same extent as today's European Bee hives?  For example, the article also quotes Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman, research leader of the USDA's Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, on the subject of our European Bee commercial hives:

"We're putting them on trucks and taking them halfway across the country. We're stressing them in almost a feedlot situation, feeding them protein supplements. We're stressing them pretty good. And that doesn't happen with Africans."

Maybe it's the ruthless exploitation of bees using technology that may be compromising their robustness.  Maybe organic bees are the way to go.  Maybe that's what the bees are telling us.  So let's see if there are any organic European Honeybee hives that are doing better than the non-organic ones.  That would tell us something.

Poll

Why, Bee, Why? Why do you Die?

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| 136 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: bees, environment, ecology (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 47 comments

  •  Interesting diary (10+ / 0-)

    and it makes a bit more sense than the GM issue.

    Bad breeding and overwork..

    Would be interesting if Killer Bees end up feeding us though. Rather ironic actually.

    "You are more than the sum of what you consume, desire is not an occupation" KMFDM - Dogma

    by Chaoslillith on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:47:39 PM PDT

  •  Thank you! (9+ / 0-)

    The disappearance of bees continent-wide is a very necessary story right now.  I'd rather it be covered and not have 100% of the details known (really, how could they all be?) than have this go uncovered.

    Bees are essential for civilization, and for large populations of larger mammals, ie., us.  

    The interesting thing is tha European bees are aliens, and there were plenty of bees here before them.  It took several centuries, but now European bees are not always connected with being exotic, while Africanized still are.  Both have to take the place of natives in order to have a niche.

    The irony is Michelle's story only happens in America, according to its most fervent patriots. Cindy McCain's happens in any country with concentrated wealth.

    by Nulwee on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:50:31 PM PDT

  •  I don't know, but I got stung by one last year... (6+ / 0-)

    on an elevator.  That's right...on an elevator.

    That little sucker got me good and my whole arm swelled up and I became very nauseous for a day or two.  Unbeknowst to me, it seems that I am allergic.  I can't recall ever having been stung before that.

    Bastards.

  •  Tipping points. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    eugene, Tigana, kraant

    Whatever it is, overstress is going to make it worse.

    Anybody know about reltive morbidity of populations in alternate hive designs, top bar, etc?

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:52:03 PM PDT

  •  I suspect this theory (7+ / 0-)

    will get people buzzing...

    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow

    by ActivistGuy on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:52:43 PM PDT

  •  Reading about this bee die-off (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, Tigana, kraant

    as opposed to the last bee die-off (mite problems then), I thought that the transportation of thousands of hives all over the country was not a good thing.

    Having once had two hives, I can tell you that transporting them home was a big deal, and the first "accident" at the hives was a bigger deal. But I would never take my bees across the country.

    Would you do that with your cat? To catch mice?

    Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

    by riverlover on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 04:59:37 PM PDT

  •  i have thousands of honeybees this year (9+ / 0-)

    my red maple was covered with them when it bloomed

    and i've heard some bee keepers say it looks to them like the bees have absconded! they've had it! packed their bags and hit the road!!

    and i've always had a few honeybees, but nothing - nothing - like this.

    so yes, there are some diseases going on - but i favor the THE BEES HAVE FINALLY HAD IT AND HIT THE ROAD! theory.

    seriously.

    i mean, i'm not a beekeeper but i've put up with enough from them over the past few years to have some idea of what they're capable of.

    James Inhofe (R - Exxon): The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the people of Oklahoma. - Eiron

    by cookiebear on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:02:16 PM PDT

    •  I had the same thought ... hit the road, jack! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      cookiebear

      Take care of those renegade honey bees, cookiebear. That's actually a beautiful thought.

      And PLEASE, get rid of Inhoffe! I used to live in Tulsa and figured that guy out 30 years ago. Couldn't BELIEVE it when he was elected to the Senate. ARGHHH!

      "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

      by annan on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:14:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Organized"? (11+ / 0-)

    I swear, I read your diary title and momentarily elided "organic" and "Africanized" into "organized".  I envisioned lots of little worker bee Norma Raes, standing up in the hive with "UNION" signs.

    Sigh, I need to take a break here.

  •  The bees aren't necessarily dying (5+ / 0-)

    when they open the hives, they aren't finding dead bees inside.  What they are finding, are fewer bees.

    They aren't finding bodies near the hives, and they aren't finding masses of dead bees in any particular location.  These bees are failing to return to their hives, and failing to communicate the location of food sources to other bees.  They are not dying, they are getting lost.

    Which might just mean, this is an easily solved problem, either a new fungus or a pesticide which causes disorientation or memory loss.

    •  or ... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      John DE, kraant, blueoasis

      they're here

      i have thousands of them this year

      James Inhofe (R - Exxon): The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the people of Oklahoma. - Eiron

      by cookiebear on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:17:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wanderlust? (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, cookiebear, kraant

        Very unlikely for a socialized insect!  Not saying it's impossible, there are many fungus and parasitic diseases out there that actually affect the brain and nervous systems, causing behaviors that are very deleterious to the host species, but beneficial to the parasite.  We might be(e) seeing a mutation or a accidental import vector that has jumped species from another insect into bees.

        I have the feeling we'll solve this, in a few years.

    •  Or something interfering with magnetic fields? (9+ / 0-)

      Hypothesis, that bees may do some of their orienteering by magnetic fields as well as by scent.

      A quick search found:

      Bursts of magnetic fields induce jumps of misdirection in bees by a mechanism of magnetic resonance

       

      Apprently their dances by which bees communicate with other bees to specify location and direction can be thrown off by magnetic pulses.  With the proliferation of cell phone towers; super high voltage lines, etc it seems logical that there is much more emf around, and it is more erratic.  So maybe the bees need tinfoil hats?

      Democrats give you the Bill of Rights; Republicans sell you a bill of goods!

      by barbwires on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:24:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  or (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, kraant

        hmmm. weird idea but the tsunami apparently caused the earth's orbit to spin a bit differently? faster or something ...

        i wonder if there could be a relationship.

        James Inhofe (R - Exxon): The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the people of Oklahoma. - Eiron

        by cookiebear on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:25:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  If this were true, we'd be seeing it in birds (5+ / 0-)

        as well.  And while we've had a few odd winter migrants (like the latest hummingbirds in NY history last January) and record numbers of overwintering birds, their migration patterns which are a combination of solar, thermal and magnetic haven't been effected.

        •  Earth's magnetic field has been weakening (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          SarahLee, annan, barbwires

          over the last 150 years. See
          Report: Earth's magnetic field fading and Nova's Magnetic Storm

          According to Honey Bee Navigation

          The Earth's magnetic field changes on a daily cycle. It is suspected that this cycle is used by bees to maintain their internal clock. Sensitivity to the magnetic cycle would be especially useful to bees who remain inside the hive and are unable to detect sunrise and sunset. It has been experimentally shown that subtle magnetic disturbances can disrupt the bee's time-keeping abilities.

          It's likely it's a combination of factors. Shipping bees from job to job and feeding them corn syrup can't be good for them.

          Laissez-faire was never a good idea; in practice it is ruinous. - Bill Moyers

          by terabytes on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 07:34:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  apparently there's a termite pesticide... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sagesource, SarahLee

      From NPR, talking to an expert from Florida - there's a termite pesticide that works by confusing the termites so they can't remember how to get home.

      If the bees (or termites) abandon the queen and her nursery, the whole hive will die.

      In a democracy, everyone is a politician. ~ Ehren Watada

      by Lefty Mama on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:19:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Missing and presumed dead (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, annan

      but boy is that strange. If they were dying off it seems at least the dead drones and queens would be found in the nests even if the workers weren't.

      I also read that these deserted hives aren't being immediately infested by other types of pests/bees that usually will quickly rob the honey of a deserted hive. Instead of immediately moving in they are waiting about two weeks.

      That seems to indicate some contaminant that dissipates?

      But it would be consoling to think it is a hive problem and not a bee problem.

      But why now? What's new that causes this sudden thing over a large area?

    •  I've heard one source (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SarahLee

      say that the bees may just be forgetting the way back, and thus don't come home.  Cause of that may be pesticides or other unknown causes.
      (Earthfiles podcast).

      "A country that hides something is a country that is afraid of getting caught. . . ."--GW Bush April 13, 2004

      by Earwicker23 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 01:47:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Local beekeeper (6+ / 0-)

    My local beekeeper (whom I buy honey from at the farmers' market) claims that his bees haven't died, and that its because there isn't a meaningful quantity of genetically modified crops grown in the area he puts hives.

  •  I've seen more the last few years (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    joynow, kraant, Predictor

    and the swarming that cookiebear reports, I had three years ago when the pyracantha and ornamentals pears were in bloom.  Thousands of the fuzzy little critters.  In fact until the recent reports, I had assumed they were probably making a comeback nationwide, since I had read about the bee decline a long time ago and saw very few for years.

    We're probably due for a rise in the price of honey again.

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it *if* you can succeed." Speaker Pelosi

    by blueoasis on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:31:38 PM PDT

  •  I thought africanized bees... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kraant

    ...made really crummy honey (in addition to being very aggressive)?  Did I hear wrong?

    If you can't stand the heat, don't play with matches.

    by DawnG on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 05:35:42 PM PDT

  •  I had a bee in my house the other day. (6+ / 0-)

    I saved it and got it outside.  It flew away happily (at least that is how I anthropomorphized our experience together) and I hoped that I had helped the bees prevail.

  •  our local hives have struggled in recent years (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, murrayewv, jabney, John DE

    because our winters have been so much milder than usual that we are having mites from down south survive instead of being killed by the cold.

  •  "even some strange side effects...." (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    murrayewv, ebohlman

    GM is the new Communism. Everything bad comes from it, even if the proponents of the proposition can't explain exactly why. Our precious bodily fluids are being poisoned.

    It reminds me depressingly of the mania some people had to blame mercury preservatives in vaccines for autism. Even after it was proved in exhaustive detail that autism rates didn't go down where the preservatives were not used, some people still kept on chanting "MER-cur-ry MER-cur-ry MER-cur-ry...."

  •  It could still be mites (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SarahLee

    There are some so small they are almost invisible. They get in the snout of the bee and gradually kill them.  Now they are trying to keep them out of the larva of the bees.

    This has been going on for about 15 years.  They imported bigger bees because they survive longer.

    For awhile every time I went to put something on our compost pile, it felt like something tiny was biting me on my arms when I walked past a certain spot.  I was told it was an allergy, but taking benadryl didn't stop it from happening.

    Spraying soapy water with a small amount of sevin in that area did stop it.  There have been several reports of people being attacked by invisible mites, but they were ridiculed, so I didn't report my attacks:-)

  •  It could be wireless equipment (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SarahLee

    Wireless uses microwaves.  Microwaves cook from the inside out.  Everything from cell phones to satellites use those waves.  We have went wireless recently and have wireless for everything rom our telephones to a computer network.  Those waves could be disoreienting the bees as someone else said.

    It could be a mixture of everything people suspect of killing the bees. It could be the new plants that are combined with poisonous plants to kill bugs.  If the bees visit there, they are doomed. We probably are too, if we eat the crops from them.

  •  Linky link (0+ / 0-)

    For further interesting reading

    http://www.fas.org/...

Permalink | 47 comments